Extracting subtitles

MKV playback, recompression, remuxing, codec packs, players, howtos, etc.
arod757
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Extracting subtitles

Post by arod757 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Can I get some guidance on the extracting subtitles feature in 1.14. I saw the option for the ccextractor location in advanced preferences and pointed it to mmccextr64.exe, but not sure what else I'm supposed to do or, frankly, exactly what this feature is supposed to do. I was hoping I'd be able to extract the subs and take a look at them before creating the mkv to check whether the subs were "foreign language only" subs. Thanks.

wmcclain
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by wmcclain » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:49 pm

The feature makes closed captions available; up until now they have been invisible to MakeMKV.

If you want to extract the tracks for inspection you would use ccextractor directly. It will produce a text file of the track in SRT format.

Closed Captions are an earlier form of subtitles embedded in the video stream. I have seen Blu-rays that use them, but they are of most use in DVDs that do not have proper subtitles.

I've tested the new feature and it works! For some reason I had to try twice. This morning the program complained that it could not find the ccextractor program I specified, but this afternoon after a restart and setting the path again it worked.

I have used ccextractor as a standalone, and Handbrake has been able to use Closed Captions, but the addition to MakeMKV is very useful to me.
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mike admin
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by mike admin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:29 am

By the way, you only have to install ccextractor and set its path in preferences on Linux. Windows and OSX versions already come with ccextractor bundled, and MakeMKV should just work.

Also, I would very much like to see a BD sample with CC. If you have one, please write to support@makemkv.com .

wmcclain
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by wmcclain » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:02 pm

mike admin wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:29 am
Also, I would very much like to see a BD sample with CC. If you have one, please write to support@makemkv.com .
Done! (Firefly tv series, Mr & Mrs Smith (2005))

Another nice thing about CC on DVD is that players have more flexibility in rendering them. Graphic overlay formats like VOBSUB for DVD and PGS/SUP for Blu-ray are usually displayed "as-is", which for DVD means "large and chunky". DVD graphics have to fit into the 720x480 pixel dimensions and it is hard to make smaller legible text.

With text subtitles the player can render them in high-res and make them smaller and still legible. With my OPPO player I display them in white with a transparent background so they "float" on the background image.

The downside: CC is sometimes of poor quality, often all caps or with glitches.

-Bill
Capsule film reviews: Strange Picture Scroll

arod757
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by arod757 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:27 pm

I appreciate all the information. I guess the difference between closed caption type subs and the subs on a blu-ray hadn't occurred to me when I asked my question. Regardless, it's a nice feature. Thank you for your responses.

KingLir
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:30 am

Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by KingLir » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:39 am

mike admin wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:29 am
By the way, you only have to install ccextractor
Thank you Mike for adding this feature! I really waited for it.

A suggestion: Handbrake method (don't sure what they are using) produce ASS subtitles and not SRT, which keeps the display positions on screen and therefore better. Also, this means it's a lossless conversion instead of the lossy one (that you took care of pointing out to the user).

Can you give a shot for upgrading MakeMKV with that ?

Thank you for all your work!

Woodstock
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by Woodstock » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:37 pm

Handbrake converts all text subtitles to the same format, so that they only have to use one renderer. They choose that format based on there being an actual standard for Substation Alpha/Advanced SS format... As one of their people told me, SRT is a "do what doesn't break" more than "here is what you can and cannot do".

Of course, I've seen ASS break a few players - my Uebo and KDlinks players simply treated them as text, and displayed EVERYTHING in the ASS track, including comments made between people working on the file. Some frames would be filled with multiple copies of a subtitle.
How to aid in finding the answer to your problem: https://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8

KingLir
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by KingLir » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:51 pm

Woodstock wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:37 pm
Handbrake converts all text subtitles to the same format, so that they only have to use one renderer. They choose that format based on there being an actual standard for Substation Alpha/Advanced SS format... As one of their people told me, SRT is a "do what doesn't break" more than "here is what you can and cannot do".

Of course, I've seen ASS break a few players - my Uebo and KDlinks players simply treated them as text, and displayed EVERYTHING in the ASS track, including comments made between people working on the file. Some frames would be filled with multiple copies of a subtitle.
But ASS can be easily converted to SRT and lose all additional data (like screen positioning and font). It's best to have lossless rip first - as all other tracks mux by MakeMKV.
It's easy enough to convert the ASS to PGS if your players prefer that.
Last edited by KingLir on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jasonk
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by jasonk » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:42 pm

Is there a preference in settings.conf to disable the use of ccextractor? If not what is the settings key for settings.conf to set the path for ccextractor?

wmcclain
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by wmcclain » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:28 am

ccextractor will not be used unless you select a CC track. They are marked clearly.
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mike admin
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by mike admin » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:15 pm

KingLir wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:51 pm
Woodstock wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:37 pm
Handbrake converts all text subtitles to the same format, so that they only have to use one renderer. They choose that format based on there being an actual standard for Substation Alpha/Advanced SS format... As one of their people told me, SRT is a "do what doesn't break" more than "here is what you can and cannot do".

Of course, I've seen ASS break a few players - my Uebo and KDlinks players simply treated them as text, and displayed EVERYTHING in the ASS track, including comments made between people working on the file. Some frames would be filled with multiple copies of a subtitle.
But ASS can be easily converted to SRT and lose all additional data (like screen positioning and font). It's best to have lossless rip first - as all other tracks mux by MakeMKV.
It's easy enough to convert the ASS to PGS if your players prefer that.
It can be done in theory. Convertsion to SRT is not hardcoded, it is profile-configurable. Right now, only conversion to SRT works, but if ASS format support would be added to MakeMKV, then it would be just a matter of changing args to ccextractor in profile. I honestly had no idea that people use anything other than SRT in real life...

KingLir
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by KingLir » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:22 pm

mike admin wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:15 pm
It can be done in theory. Convertsion to SRT is not hardcoded, it is profile-configurable. Right now, only conversion to SRT works, but if ASS format support would be added to MakeMKV, then it would be just a matter of changing args to ccextractor in profile. I honestly had no idea that people use anything other than SRT in real life...
I believe this won't give the outcome needed (preserve screen positioning of the subtitles), since CCExtractor just don't support it. Need to look what Handbrake is using to extract CC subtitles. You probably will figure it out faster than me by looking at their code / documents.

Woodstock
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by Woodstock » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:30 pm

mike admin wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:15 pm
I honestly had no idea that people use anything other than SRT in real life...
SRT is a staple of the fan subtitle groups for one big reason - a lot of player will use them if you put both the video file and the SRT file in the same directory, as long as the file name is the same (except the extension). There are several websites that will provide .SRT files for popular movies.

But serious fan subbers use Substation Alpha, because it allows for more than just plain text. It allows setting the font, color, position, etc., of the subtitle. A popular effect is to do "karaoke" subtitles for music.

It comes at a price, though; most players won't even look for a .ass or .ssa file, so the "normal" way of dealing with them is to embed the .ass and its associated font files into an MKV file.
How to aid in finding the answer to your problem: https://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8

mike admin
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by mike admin » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:47 pm

KingLir wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:22 pm
I believe this won't give the outcome needed (preserve screen positioning of the subtitles), since CCExtractor just don't support it.
It absolutely does. It can even output "raw" format - a fixed matrix with characters and attributes (color/bold/italic etc) for each position.

KingLir
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Re: Extracting subtitles

Post by KingLir » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:11 pm

mike admin wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:47 pm
KingLir wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:22 pm
I believe this won't give the outcome needed (preserve screen positioning of the subtitles), since CCExtractor just don't support it.
It absolutely does. It can even output "raw" format - a fixed matrix with characters and attributes (color/bold/italic etc) for each position.
Awesome. I thought Handbrake uses another tool for some reason. I hope you will have the time to add this improvement to MakeMKV....
Thanks again!

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